Out of Control®

This story is about the 'Deferred: 452 try later' error message when sending email to Videotron.ca mail servers.

A couple of weeks ago I started having terrible problems with email sent from my server to any Videotron email account. I checked, double checked, triple checked my server for a mistake in my config files. Nothing bad was found.

So I called Videotron and asked them if there was a problem on their end. I was told the only way I could get help from them, was to send an email to 'assistance@videotron.ca', which I did. A week passed and I got no response. So I email them again. A week later and still no response. Yesterday, I called back Videotron prepared with all the error messages, IP addresses, and details I could obtain on the problem with 'Deferred: 452 try later' on my own server.

After some discussion with technical support they told me I would once again have to email 'assisstance@videotron.ca'. I explained to the fellow on the phone that I already did that twice and got no response, and that I would not take that route again. Luckily for me this tech support guy was feeling helpful and told me that all assistance emails are logged, so he could easily check what was going on. After a few more minutes on the phone, he told me that no response was made to either of my emails, and that I would have to email once again.

At this point I was trying to come up with another approach to this problem and asked if there was some way that I could speak to someone in another department that might have an answer. After almost 5 minutes on hold, I was finally passed to what Videotron calls their Security Department. This apparently is where all the low level, spam blocking takes place.

Mr Security Officer from the Security Department, we will call him Dave for lack of a better name, asked me for the IP address of my server, and if I had any forwards in place to forward email to Videotron.ca. Geez, I have 68 clients, I don't know what forwards they each had. After a few seconds Dave said my problem was that I had no spam filters and as a result my server was sending way to much spam to Videotron.ca. I politely explained all the levels of spam protection I 'did' have on my server and that I am one hundred percent opposed to any spam what-so-ever. Dave told me that my spam percent was 68%. Meaning that of all the email that went through my server to Videotron.ca, 68% of it was Spam.

When I asked what could be done, Dave said "sorry, nothing". So I pushed a little harder and Dave reluctantly told me that Videotron could monitor the traffic for a day and see exactly where the spam was coming from. Fair enough I thought, I can wait one more day.

So today, I called back Videotron at their Security Department telephone number 514-281-8498 and told them my IP address. Mike, the security officer who answered did a quick check and told me what domains were sending the spam and that my spam count was currently 100%. One hundred percent eh?! So Videotron is telling me that every single email that comes from my server to their server is spam. Wow, strange, as I send emails quite frequently to Videotron from my server and I can be tell you my emails are not spam. Heck, even my Spamassassin installation which checks all out going email tells me that my email is not spam. Not only is it not spam, but my spam score is something like -10. I should also point out that IP's and domains are not listed in any blacklists and I have no open relays. Dave was nice enough to also tell me which domains on my server where in theory sending all this spam. All the domains it turns out, are owned by my father-in-law.

A quick grep through the aliases files on my server showed that I had 4 websites with forwards to Videotron.ca (I really should have checked this first I guess). All four sites are indeed owned by my infamous spam lord father-in-law (Joke). The fact is, my father-in-law builds the odd site for friends and has relatively low email usage. But, if Videotron really doesn't want my father-in-law, a Videotron customer himself, to use their Videotron.ca mail servers, so be it. I removed the forwards and informed my father-in-law. Videotron told me that my IP address was reset to a Spam count of zero and that there would be no more problems.

A few hours later I decided to test send a legit email through my server to my Videotron.ca account. Strangely enough I got the dreaded 'Deferred: 452 try later' error again. So I called back to the Security Department of Videotron.ca and told them my IP address. I was again, told that I should really install spam filters, to which I gave the same reply as before, and asked if I had any forwarding email accounts on the server, to which I was able to reply no. So the guy reset my Spam count on my IP address to zero. I did ask him why my Spam count was back up and he told me that my IP address is still spamming them, which I find a bit strange since my logs don't show that.

Anyhow I thanked Dave, hung up and sent a test email which went through. Great I thought. What about in another hour. After an hour had passed I sent another test email, and strangely enough I am once again listed as a spammer on their servers. So again I am checking how many email have actually gone through from my server to Videotron and the total number in the last hour is 3. But wait, what have we here, oh, yes, my server is now trying to resend all those email that Videotron.ca blocked with a 'Deferred: 452 try later' error. Arg! So I now delete all emails sitting in the mail queues on my server (again, something I should have done in the first place but I didn't, after all, in theory if a good email gets a deferred error message, the server is supposed to retry sending that email another time).

Why in the world would a company as large as Videotron use a system as horrible and biased as this:

First, deferring email only means that they are asking for trouble. I mean, all the servers out there will keep trying for four days to resend each email that gets deferred. Videotron's servers must be going nuts with all these deferred errors that keep retrying.

Second, why in the world is Videotron attacking and punishing the honest person and their clients. My server is legit, not a base of covert spam operations designed to bring down that huge monolithic company known as Quebecor. If they really want to decrease spam, then go after the people that actually send the spam. All Videotron is doing is letting the people that really send spam continue to do so, and those that are supposedly on Videotron's side in the fight against spam, get punished for trying to be honest and good. No one wins and in fact Videotron is now aiding in the proliferation of spam on the internet thanks to their methods.

Third, Videotron is blocking legitimate email from their own clients. Do their clients even know this? I am one of Videotron's clients and only just found out that not all my emails are getting through. Imagine if Canada Post was caught tossing random mail into the trash. "Oh, look, their goes Mr. Johnsons pension cheque, but gosh he didn't need it anyway." It would be a federal crime for Canada Post to do this, and there should be some sort of protection for people like you and me that makes it criminal for ISP's to do this, at least without any warning what so ever to their clients.

I searched around on the internet and found that I am not alone. Here is a link to a great forum thread about a fellow that was a little more investigative in his questioning to Videotron. It is in french so you will have to use Babel fish if you don't understand french: http://forum.iweb.ca/en/viewtopic.php?t=634

If you are not wanting to go to the trouble of getting the thread translated, I have used Babel fish and touched up the main points that PW makes:

After a long discussion with the service of safety of Vidéotron, here the principal points:

• Videotron has had this system for approximately 3 months and does not see any change in the near future.
• Videotron admits to being the only ISP to use this system in Quebec.
• Videotron claims that its customers are very satisfied with the system and that the legitimate loss of messages is not their problem.
• Videotron refuses to treat differently the redirected messages from servers (where information in the header makes it possible to do that easily) and considers the server which redirects email to Videotron responsible for the whole of the redirected traffic.
• Videotron refuses to limit blocking to the addresses which actually do receive Spam and insists blocking the email coming from ** the entire server **
• Videotron requires that email on the redirect server filter the messages redirected with Spamassassin and remove all email that exceeds a score of 5 (this is completely irresponsible, and many valid messages actually exceed this limit).
• Videotron tells its own customers who complain about spam, that the problem comes not from their method of filtering but from incompetence of the administrators who do not submit to Videotrons requirements!
• Videotron claims that 95% of the admins already yield to its requests (what appears at the very least suspect to me)
• Videotron slows down and blocks the email without warning the administrator of the servers concerned and does not intend to change its ways
• Videotron does not provide any explanation on its site (what would simplify the explanation for the customers to which one must ask to remove their redirection) and thus does not recognize officially the fact that they filter Spam this way
• Vidéotron reconnait to receive tous.les.jours many calls on this subject.

If you also have problems with this method of email blocking which stops the good email coming from redirects towards the Videotron customers, and you are experiencing a loss of many legitimate messages, call Videotron Security Department at this number: 514-281-8498

When you call Videotron, you can ask them to tell you your Spam rate, and ask so that it be set to zero, which will temporarily correct the problem.

Okay, the english is a bit broken, but I cleaned it up the best I could. Translating from french to english is harder than it looks!

One other item I noticed the other day. I was trying to forward an email to a relative of mine who has a Videotron address. I used my own Videotron email address and got a message back saying that my message was spam. I simply removed the 'Fwd:' from the start of the subject line and the message then went through. So Videotron appears to be blocking any email that has 'Fwd:' at the beginning of the subject. This is not spam filtering, this is censorship!

I plan on calling the Security Department at Videotron evertime I see one of my valid emails getting blocked. Perhaps you should do the same.

Any advice given in this column is to be used at your own discrection. I am not liable for any damage, fallout, or complaints from Videotron for your actions!